Carolyn Jameson (CJ): We try to address diversity in everything we do. For instance, we adopt flexible working hours. We don’t really have core hours and essentially we say to people, ‘you work to suit you’. It really helps personally for me − I’ve got three kids.
We focus a lot on cultural diversity. We’re spread out globally; we have a number of offices in different locations, and we have a programme where people can elect to work for a month in another office if they want to, to teach them about cultural differences in the business. We also have benefits that take the local environment very much into consideration − we do things that people working in that market would expect. For instance, in China when it’s New Year, you always give employees a bonus called a ‘red envelope’. Or when people get married in Hungary, the company would normally give them a present.
GC: Is your diversity and inclusion approach primarily driven by internal factors or external pressures?
CJ: It’s very much driven by internal factors; a desire to create a certain type of culture. There are external influences: we know that tech companies tend to be more forward-thinking in these types of things, and when you’re recruiting, people who are coming from other tech companies very much expect a certain type of working environment.
I think it is quite well publicised that there is a lack of women in tech, and that can present challenges. In general, there are fewer women interested in the sujects relevant to working in the tech sector.
I think there needs to be more done fundamentally within state education to address some of these issues. We in the UK need to be competing with other countries that have strong tech sectors, and that can be a real challenge.
I also think it’s important that more is done to encourage people who want a change of career or are returning to work − I think there’s a group of people that we could make the most of. We’re not doing enough in that area at the moment.
GC: Is it important to have female role models in the tech sector?
CJ: I think so – it’s important in every sector. I will quite often get invited to go and talk at events around being female in my role. I am still sometimes quite shocked at the questions I get asked. It can be things like ‘can I have children in a career?’ Somebody asked me that the other day and I couldn’t believe it! You can sense the nervousness. It is quite often tied to children and the ability to juggle the role of being a mother as well as having a senior role. I’ve got three children and it is sometimes a struggle, but it was never something that made me think I couldn’t do it. By showing that you can do it, it perhaps will help others to overcome their nervousness. Also we need to find more creative ways to help people manage those things; men as well as women.
I think that women often feel they need to be 100% ready to perform a role when they go for it, whereas men are much more inclined to go for it and figure it out when they get there. It’s just encouraging women to be brave and realise that you need to grow into roles sometimes, and you shouldn’t put yourself out of the running because you don’t think that you’ll feel 100% comfortable on day one. I don’t think I’ve ever felt 100% comfortable in a job on day one.
GC: What impact do you think diversity has on the perception of a company?
CJ: lf people think that they’re going to be included, then they’re much more willing to go and work somewhere. If they can see that a company is very inclusive and will make allowances for things that matter to them, then I think they are much more likely to join, which will help you attract the top talent.
GC: Do you think it has an impact on your customers?
CJ: Absolutely. These days, with things like social media, people who are unhappy with things are so visible, so your reputation can be damaged and a certain view of the company promoted very easily. It’s very important to be seen in a positive way, and this is an area where you can be.
GC: What are the strategic benefits for your business of being diverse and inclusive?
CJ: There are a few aspects to talent retention. There’s attracting people in the first place, and making sure that you’re not excluding people who are really talented, due to not being open-minded. And it’s also about making sure that, as people’s lives change, that doesn’t necessarily mean that their job has to change. You invest a lot in people, whether that’s through training or the knowedge and experience they build up. You don’t want them walking away, for instance if they have a child and they don’t feel they can come back because they only want to work part-time, or whatever it might be. But it’s also just the right thing to do.
GC: What is the role of the in-house legal team in creating diversity and inclusion initiatives? Can the legal team have an effect on the identity of the company?
CJ: I think we do have an effect, internally and externally. I joined Skyscanner to build the legal team up from scratch, and I’ve tried to recruit a variety of people from different backgrounds and different skillsets. I think the law is terrible for diversity – I find it strange that law firms quite often recruit mini replicas of each other, who fit the mould of a traditional lawyer.
Having a diverse range of people means that you get a better diversity of thought and ideas, because you’ve got a wide range of views, experiences and opinions. I’m not sure we’ve cottoned on to this sufficiently in the legal environment, and that isn’t great for the reputation of the legal market overall.
We’ve started a training programme so that we can take on some people who a law firm would probably say don’t fit their culture, but actually the firms are then missing out on people who are hugely talented. When my team are out at events, you can see that we are challenging the perception of what people expect us to be like.
GC: Would you ever let the diversity of a law firm affect whether they get work from you, or whether they get onto a panel?
CJ: Yes – and I actually think it already does to a degree. I only use firms where I like the people. If I was setting up a panel, I would definitely want to know about their approach to diversity and how they view that as part of the selection criteria.