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Michael Gerstenzang: Insights from Cleary’s ‘Listener-in-Chief’

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You recently began your second term as Cleary Gottlieb’s managing partner. What surprised you the most during your first three years leading the firm?

I now have an appreciation for what music fans refer to as Bob Dylan’s ‘Never Ending Tour’ – lawyers are often on the road, but the life of a managing partner entails visiting colleagues, clients, alumni, and others in person at a much more frequent pace. I think I logged enough miles during my first term to travel to the moon and back!

It’s been an amazing experience spending time at our 16 offices and other key locations each year. Since day one in my position, it’s been very important to me to foster greater communication and connectivity with internal and external audiences, and to learn first-hand what’s happening in their practices, businesses, and lives.

What’s come as no surprise – and what’s been arguably the greatest reward – is the opportunity to witness the commitment to what Cleary stands for, no matter the office or practice. We remain a firm where people are mutually respectful, and where collegiality and fairness are prized. These traits have translated into a deep loyalty among lawyers and professional staff, which has enabled us to serve our clients exceptionally well. It’s been a privilege for me to experience this as managing partner, and I’m looking forward to the next three years.

How do you balance your leadership responsibilities with managing an active private investment fund practice?

In my view, the two areas are closely intertwined, so it doesn’t feel like a balancing act. I spend a great deal of time with our lawyers discussing how we can remain the firm of choice in a highly competitive environment, and I work with our leadership team to ensure they have the support necessary to meet this goal.

To me, the best way to demonstrate our firm’s commitment to providing the best possible client service is to ‘walk the talk’ as managing partner: like my colleagues, I’ve had the privilege of working with many leading businesses whose senior executives view me as their trusted advisor on the most sensitive and complex matters. Through my funds practice and my leadership role, I’m able to reaffirm the importance of deepening our connections with our clients by understanding their goals and delivering exceptional service. 

Law firms are talent businesses – they don’t have warehouses, factories, or patents; they have their talent, experience, and expertise

You’ve described yourself as Cleary’s ‘Listener-in-Chief’. What insights have clients shared with you about their outside counsel expectations in today’s environment?

Since becoming managing partner, I have spoken with nearly 300 clients. Much of that time is spent discussing their plans for growth, changes in their lines of business, and understanding what keeps them up at night. During these conversations, I’m trying to get a sense of the direction of our clients’ businesses so that we can assess how we can better serve them. 

The discussion typically also covers how we’re doing – what’s working well in the Cleary relationship and what can be improved; what other law firms are doing that we should do more of; and, generally, how the client views its relationships with law firms. Clients often ask specific questions, including what we’re doing to address diversity and inclusion, how we use technology, and about our environmental sustainability practices. The frequency with which these questions occur has shown me that clients expect their counsel to understand the broader environment in which our businesses operate. They expect law firms to address important, timely issues as well as provide expert legal advice.     

What about internally – what are you hearing from your fellow partners, as well as associates and business professionals, about what’s needed to serve clients?

I often hear from partners and colleagues that clients value our understanding of topics that are regularly on their minds and frequently discussed in the legal press – topics that go beyond providing excellent legal service. Engaging with clients on these topics, particularly when we raise them proactively, is an important indicator that we are attuned to their interests. 

Strengthening relationships with clients requires our teams to think strategically about their businesses, industries, and what’s going on in the world – all of which go beyond their day-to-day legal work. Ensuring that our lawyers, at every level, have access to mentoring, training, and development opportunities is a key component of building this skillset.

The idea of feedback is also at the core of what I’m hearing internally about serving our clients. Our lawyers want to give and receive feedback – both from their colleagues and from their clients. We’ve recently rolled out a global feedback programme for associates that includes an upward review process for the senior lawyers with whom they work. On the external side, we’re continuing to expand our client feedback interview programme, which allows us to learn more about what’s working in our client relationships and what we can improve upon. Implementing this feedback is an integral part of deepening our relationships with our clients and continuing to achieve successful outcomes for them.

I believe technology will, in the near-term, have a more significant impact on the way firms work internally and run their businesses than it will on their work with clients

What do you think firms need to do to ensure they’re retaining great talent?

Attracting and retaining talent is one of the most important aspects of any law firm’s success. Law firms are talent businesses – they don’t have warehouses, factories, or patents; they have their talent, experience, and expertise. I’m often reminded that the strength of our firm and the strength of our client relationships are both functions of our talent and our community. 

Shifts in our industry – including an ever-broadening range of career paths for lawyers beyond BigLaw and succession issues due to partnership demographics – make talent retention even more challenging.  With this increased competition for attracting and retaining talent comes the responsibility of law firms to consider and improve their talent strategies.
 
Cleary Gottlieb recently introduced our ‘Talent 2020’ programme – a slate of initiatives designed to take our talent strategy to the next level so we may continue to be a firm that the highest-calibre law students, lawyers, and professional staff want to join and that clients want to hire. In conjunction with the hiring of our firm’s first-ever chief talent officer, we are deeply focused on enhancing talent management to encourage retention of our most important asset – our people.

A lot gets made about technology and innovation in the legal profession. What do these mean to Cleary as a business?

Clients expect us to use technology to speed up work, provide more detailed information, and lower costs. To address this growing need, our Global Innovation Committee is working to further increase our use of AI and technology across practices and promote engagement in innovation initiatives throughout the firm. 

The importance of technology and innovation to our clients requires us to make them a priority in our business, which has, in turn, been really positive for us. In fact, I believe technology will, in the near-term, have a more significant impact on the way firms work internally and run their businesses than it will on their work with clients. Technological change must be embraced.  We must learn how to use these tools for both internal and external purposes so that technology is an ally as opposed to an enemy. 

We are deeply focused on increasing efficiency through both the smart use of technology and strong project management. To achieve these standards in our business, I believe that we will need (and will have) more technologists within our organisation. However, this also impacts our talent strategy: we need to make our firm an attractive and interesting place to work for professionals who are traditionally more attracted to high-tech businesses. We need the right business professionals in technology and related functions – including our research, knowledge strategy, and finance teams – to ensure we’re advancing our position in this space.

How would you describe Cleary’s role and responsibilities as a good global citizen?

This is a topic that reflects what a special place Cleary is, and how immensely proud I am to be part of this firm.

Our lawyers have an acute sense of responsibility to their profession, compassion for those who are in need of equal access to justice, and a commitment to the communities where they work and live. We have long viewed pro bono efforts as a mindful choice, and our lawyers and business professionals commit more than 90,000 hours of voluntary legal work each year. Last year alone, we helped people and NGOs from more than 60 countries around the world with everything from advocating on international human rights and immigration issues, to providing free legal assistance to under-resourced micro-entrepreneurs, to exonerating people wrongly convicted of murder.

I continue to be inspired by our lawyers’ dedication to good global citizenship, and feel that we must remain steadfast in this commitment during what has recently felt like uncertain times for many.

Cleary will celebrate its 75th anniversary in 2021. What will be key to your firm’s success for the next 75 years?

I’ve been spending a lot of time thinking about our firm’s vision as we approach this important milestone – who we want to be, what our goals are, and how we will measure our progress towards those goals. No firm or business is free from challenges, and the challenges firms are facing – in recruitment, retention, client development, and profitability – are not going away. In fact, I expect them to intensify. 

However, I’m convinced that we will retain our competitive position as one of the world’s leading firms with a clear vision and active engagement in pursuit of it. I believe our success for the next 75 years depends on a deep focus on our clients: our understanding of where they are and what they need. Our continued success requires us to think strategically about how we can ensure quality and excellence across our integrated, international landscape of offices. Rather than trying to be ‘all things to everyone’, our talented, dedicated and entrepreneurial lawyers will focus their efforts on our clients’ most complex matters, ensuring our cohesive culture stays intact in the process. 

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A changing approach to leadership at the Bar

Once upon a time in an Inn not so far away, a seemingly clever individual created the first ‘chambers director’ position to make the Bar competitive. These roles – ambassadorial in function – spread rapidly. They linked members of the Bar with their increasingly business-like clients and performed the role of a lynch pin between the same groups, the clerking and staffing teams, and the newly formed management committees, and were allowed to meet clients, impress QCs, and befriend the senior clerk. 

The ‘lucky’ first wave was drawn from the senior ranks of former military personnel, as it was felt former Major Generals could transfer seamlessly into running a barristers’ chambers. Several of these appointments were unsuccessful. More than two decades later, the Bar is seeking a fresh approach. Leadership candidates drawn from the solicitor’s profession, because being more like their clients means attracting more work from them, have been more successful. This hasn’t been easy and even by exchanging the culture of partnerships for the Bar’s hierarchical, committee led ‘one member one vote approach’, many have effected significant change – especially structures and greater professionalisation. 

New approach 

Looking at the senior leadership functions in place at the Bar today and we see a much more sophisticated approach. As the business of the Bar continues to change, the role of CEO/chambers director still includes ambassadorial, strategic management and leadership functions, but the Bar now requires greater value from these roles and demands that they can deliver business.  

Senior leadership – the considerations

The biggest challenge face by recruitment committees over the next five years is ‘recruiting a highly suitable individual capable of driving and growing our business appropriately who all our clients will like’. Despite thriving under traditional leadership, continued success requires elements of a new approach. 

Meeting its challenges

Understanding the needs of the business includes producing a detailed analysis of current and future clients by considering who their clients are; how they behave; whether they are changing; and whether their approach to client development and management is in line with the way our (potential) clients do business. This requires recognising the change in market conditions whilst bringing others with them. 

A modern senior leadership role at the Bar requires a minimum of leadership skills; the ability to plan and execute a strategy; business development and marketing know-how; polished interpersonal skills; financial management and political awareness. 

Shift in focus

Having traditionally enjoyed seemingly endless streams of referred work from solicitors (who had no other choice), the Bar is now acknowledging market demands for the Bar to be highly visible, client-focused and delivering high-end legal services to varying clients.    

Increasingly demanding clients, diminishing public funding, retention of work by solicitors, and increased competition for the same business means many sets are fishing in non-traditional pools.  

Other work comes directly from general counsel, in-house legal teams, professionals, and the booming Direct Access Scheme. Meanwhile, international arbitration work is increasing and has even spawned an entire chambers. 

Candidate requirements

How a set articulates its requirements is vital. The best candidates look for leadership from those managing the process and the role they will play in the business’ future. It’s important to strike a balance between the foundations of a plan and the right level of a work in progress.

With lateral hires at an all-time high, the importance of chambers showcasing itself most effectively is crucial. Barristers are still relatively free to move as they want – tie-ins are increasing but can also put people off. Loyalties are being tested and chambers are aggressively recruiting from other sets. The top end of the commercial Bar is openly raiding middle-ranked sets at an alarming rate and established sets are folding because of poor planning or a ‘run’ on members. 

The addition of dynamic leadership is a big pull. Sets demonstrating that its leadership function aligns with market changes and attracts clients by occupying the same space have much higher rates of attraction and retention. 

Recognising talent

As the demands of the Bar evolve, so has the talent pool it draws from. The quality of applicants for senior leadership roles at the Bar from within the traditional clerking and practice management pools has increased significantly. It’s not unusual to have senior clerking figures with MBAs and marketing qualifications, which has filled an important gap. Many sets have created flatter management structures with several ‘directors’ responsible for the key elements of the business; clerking; finance; administration; business development and marketing.

Empowerment for retention

An empowering market change is the rising need for hands-on business development and marketing being fulfilled by more junior staff. The Bar should continue encouraging this because the business benefits from more effective teams in sync with market developments and the needs of a changing client base. 

As demands for the most talented barristers increase, so does the importance of those who play a significant role in their success. The Bar still has some way to go in recognising this. Individuals want a clearly defined career path and to share in the business’s success. 

Communicating success

While the business of Bar and the skills required to lead effectively keeps evolving, many of Bar’s key elements of success remain in place. It continues to be recognised globally for its ability to deliver expert legal services to an increasingly diverse range of clients and at real cost. With the nuances and make-up of each set rendering a universal approach to leadership impossible, the key lies in the ability to execute a client-focused and joined-up approach to delivering this important message.  

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Jerry Koh: We need to prepare our lawyers for the future

How would you define the culture of Allen & Gledhill and how important is that culture to you? 

Allen & Gledhill (A&G) is one big close-knitted family and our people are the critical ingredient to the success of our firm. We are inclusive and as a family, unity is important. We take pride in our work and look out for one another. The relationships with our staff, partners and clients remain at the core of our business. With a full suite of legal practices across our presence in Southeast Asia – namely Singapore, Malaysia, Myanmar, and Indonesia, we are a dynamic collective and strive to be the legal centre of excellence to support our clients globally. 

In addition, the A&G culture also places a premium on integrity and honesty. Collectively, these values have formed our culture and sustained the success of the firm for the past 118 years and will continue to do so into the future. We have been very encouraged that A&G continues to maintain our pole position in Singapore with the highest number of Tier 1 practice rankings and lawyers listed as Leading Individuals in Singapore by The Legal 500. 

How is the role of managing partner shared between yourself and Lee Kim Shin? 

Kim Shin has been managing partner for the last eight years and brings a wealth of experience. Prior to being joint managing partner with him, I have been deputy managing partner for the past three years. Both of us have worked very closely together throughout all these years and he has exposed me to every part of the business. We consult each other frequently and manage the business together to deliver the best service to our clients. 

The journey so far has been exciting, busy, but fulfilling. Over the last few years, I have been actively involved in the core of the business with Kim Shin and managing the firm together. My focus has been the development of our regional strategy and business development efforts, as well as working closely with the various practice groups in the firm to drive performance. 

How much client-facing work do you still undertake and how do you juggle your leadership responsibilities with fee-earning? 

Client-facing work energises me! It is what keeps me on my toes. My main areas of practice are capital markets, M&A, and investment funds, and I head our firm’s REITs practice. In Singapore and the greater Asia region, REITs, M&A, and fund raising have been rife and that is what has kept my team and me very busy. I am still very much hands-on with transactions and I meet with clients as much as possible to discuss, propose solutions, and negotiate documents. 

I work together with my fellow partners and associates as a team and we play to our strengths. Where possible, I will delegate work to my lawyers and empower them to carry out various tasks but with close guidance and oversight from me. I hope to create an environment where our lawyers can step up, take on the challenge and take ownership of their work. I strongly believe that leadership includes enabling others to do more. 

What interesting trends have you noticed in the market of late? 

First, I see connectivity as a key trend that will feature prominently. Its importance has been demonstrated in the present Covid-19 pandemic where we can witness just how interconnected the world is and how that has exacerbated the spread of the virus. Ultimately, global coordination and scientific collaboration among countries are crucial for helping us defeat Covid-19, and I foresee this collaboration extends to areas of trade and business post-Covid-19, giving rise to greater opportunities for lawyers. 

Second, I see innovation and the use of technology impacting conventional capital markets and M&A in terms of creating greater efficiency and enhancing the delivery of results. 

Third, I see sustainability affecting how we conduct business going forward. Sustainable finance has increased by 46% in 2019, with green deals making up approximately $460bn in value. In the same year, the Monetary Authority of Singapore also announced a $2bn Green Investments Programme to support global green finance initiatives. Green bonds are just one example of sustainable investment products and I foresee there are more to come as businesses adjust their priorities and objectives to achieve sustainability and survivability for the long term. 

Since becoming managing partner, what (if anything) has surprised you most within Allen & Gledhill and/or externally in the wider legal market? 

At A&G, there are many overachievers and exceptional people across our departments and practice groups. These people often require a different level of care and handling and I also need to help them see the importance of working together in teams rather than individually. On the other end of the spectrum, there are also some that I need to inspire and motivate to help them realise their potential. These interactions have proven to be an enriching learning journey for myself. Ultimately, careful people development and job enrichment are vital to ensure that our lawyers are set up for success. 

What’s the main change you’ve directly been involved in that has or will benefit your clients and staff? 

I am glad that our regionalisation efforts which I have spearheaded are coming to fruition. Currently, we have a presence in Singapore, Malaysia, Myanmar, and Indonesia. Next, we are looking at potentially Vietnam and beyond. On the business development side of things, I am also reviewing our strategy by harnessing the expertise of our various practices to see how we can engage our clients deeper, while at the same time understand what improvements and measures can be implemented within our firm. 

A recent project I have initiated is the firm-wide ‘Innovation Challenge 2020’. Our staff are encouraged to adopt an innovative mindset to think about the change we want to see in the firm, be it internally or through our work with our clients. After all, it is usually in the most mundane of things which require practical solutions that sparks innovation. Take, for example, the innovation of instant noodles. The idea of flash drying noodles to give them a longer shelf life, came to Momofuku Ando, the founder of Nissin instant noodles, during a time of need with Japan suffering from a shortage of food in the post-war era. My goal is to engage all our staff, who are our key internal stakeholders, to have a sense of ownership with their contribution, through this challenge. We have received very positive responses. 

Separately, in dealing with the Covid-19 pandemic, together with my team of business leaders, a task force was promptly set up to tackle with the crisis and we had to draw up a business continuity plan. Besides looking into the work from home arrangement for our staff, we have also assembled a separate cross-disciplinary Covid-19 Resource Centre and Legal Task Force to provide legal assistance for our clients. Our firm was one of the first organisations to have started implementing our business continuity plan, even before the World Health Organisation declared Covid-19 as a pandemic. Initially, some thought we might have been overly cautious and kiasu (a Singaporean colloquial term for ‘scared to lose’)! Our efforts were not for nought. Recently, our firm was recognised by one of Singapore’s Ministers in Parliament and we were applauded for our foresight and crisis readiness. 

I really hope that this relationship of collaborative work and communication amongst our staff and our clients continues and allows for a culture of openness that fosters deeper relationships. 

How has the recent outbreak of coronavirus affected the firm and its clients? 

The Covid-19 pandemic has definitely affected the way we work and interact within A&G and with our clients. Calls, tele, and video conferencing have become essential in our work, and enables our business to function. However, herein lies the opportunity to showcase our creativity and innovation in the legal profession. 

We have started weekly teleconferencing check-ins across different departments and practice groups to ensure the wellbeing of our staff. With our clients, we have also separately reached out to them through webinars, emails, calls, WhatsApp, and Zoom. Deliberate efforts are made to ensure constant communication with our staff and clients. During crises, leadership needs to step up and over-communicate to ensure the message reaches everyone and no one is left behind. 

What have you learnt from this crisis, both professionally and personally? 

I have learnt that communication, resilience, and innovation go a long way in dealing with a crisis. Innovation at its core is to find the most effective ways to solve problems. The Covid-19 crisis has shown me these attributes. We were one of the first organisations in Singapore to implement our business continuity plan and at the time, there were not many guidelines or procedures to follow. Managing a large firm is not easy and this requires understanding of the different needs of the departments, practice groups, and staff. We had to create and implement a business continuity plan from scratch and set the plan in motion, in the quickest time possible. The safety and wellbeing of our staff is paramount and we had to communicate effectively and act swiftly. 

For our clients, the establishment of our Covid-19 Resource Centre online and a cross-disciplinary Legal Task Force to address their concerns pertaining to the legal impact of Covid-19 on their businesses was a great help to them. It was heartening to receive the positive feedback from our clients. 

Aside from the pandemic, what do you believe are the biggest challenges facing firms across Asia Pacific? 

The biggest challenge for firms across Asia Pacific is to stay relevant to our clients, understand their needs and help them achieve their long-term business goals and aspirations. Further, not only do we have to help our clients build stronger businesses, these businesses have to be sustainable. As we move towards a digital economy, I believe there would be greater challenges and threats around cybersecurity and digital infrastructure that legal firms and our clients will need to address together. 

What are your predictions for the Singapore legal market over the next 12 months? 

Overall, I think Singapore will bounce back strongly and be even more relevant to the global economy, especially given that we have been praised on the international stage as an exemplary role model in handling the crisis. The Singapore legal market will also recover in tandem as they have been proactive in responding to the Covid-19 situation. What is encouraging is that many lawyers are now more adaptable to a work from home arrangement and more agile in how they respond to problems. Moreover, having a proactive and responsive government that Singapore is known for, will also help in the recovery of the Singapore legal market. 

What have you found is the best way to recruit and retain talent – both at partner and associate levels? 

Personally, the best way to retain talent is to make our people feel valued and to present and excite them with interesting challenges, personal growth, and a life-long learning experience. I also believe it is important to create a conducive work environment by providing our lawyers with open communication channels, mentorship, and training opportunities to develop as professionals. 

What advice would you give to the next generation of partners and law firm leaders? 

‘Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day; teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime.’ For A&G, this means preparing all of our lawyers for the future with the right skills, mindset, and experiences. Listen to your clients and keep a close watch on what is affecting them and what matters to them most. The Covid-19 pandemic has also shown that we need to always be ready for a black swan event. 

Finally, we need to be thankful to the people who have supported us and helped us get to where we are, and express our appreciation to them. As partners and law firm leaders, gratitude, kindness, and appreciation should be our guiding principles. 

What do you think lawyers, generally, need to be better at? 

Technology has now come to the forefront of global business operations. Bloomberg’s annual Innovation Index 2020 has rated Singapore as the third most innovative country and as a lawyer who is managing a top regional firm which work closely with global clients, I feel that there is much that we can improve on in this front. 

Personally, as lawyers, we need to ready ourselves to take on the emerging digital economy by adjusting our mindset and get up to speed with technology and innovation. As a start, we could work on defining the problem that we face in our daily work, review the current processes and then find the ‘best fit’ technology to be applied to solve the problem. By adopting this thought process, I believe both technology and innovation can be embraced further across all aspects of the legal profession. We need to be technology-first in our business, much like in our personal lives. Asia has one of the highest mobile penetration rates in the world and we also do have a population which high in technological literacy. As business leaders and lawyers, we definitely can be more technology-minded. 

Finally, what’s been your greatest achievement to date? 

Achievements have a very different meaning to different people and to me, it is less about individual accomplishments but rather, on doing intrinsic good by making a positive impact and difference to the lives of the people around me. My priorities in life are my faith which gives me strength and guidance, my family, whose love and support that I cherish and my work that I enjoy immensely.

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What international law firms can learn from Asia Pacific’s response to Covid-19

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The global Covid-19 pandemic has forced many countries into varying degrees of lockdown. Individuals performing jobs that are not essential to provide healthcare, food, and essential goods are largely working from home. This includes lawyers, who are now performing the majority or entirety of their work remotely, perhaps for the first time. 

Asia Pacific is a few weeks ahead of the rest of the world, having dealt with the onset of the virus in January and February. With this in mind, what lessons can legal practices further afield, who are only just getting to grips with Covid-19, learn from firms in this region? 

The situation in Thailand

For a period of time, the spread of Covid-19 appeared to be relatively under control in Thailand. Despite having been declared the highest-risk country outside of China at the end of January, the number of cases was limited to just 47 at the beginning of March, with one fatality. 

While some countries further afield have had difficulty enforcing social distancing guidelines, there is a strong culture of compliance in Thailand and the country learned from its experiences during the 2002-2004 SARS outbreak. These factors likely helped limit the initial spread of the virus. 

However, after a spike in the number of Covid-19 infections in March, the government imposed an emergency decree, giving them the power to enforce curfews, restrict travel, and close public spaces.  

Adapting internally

During the initial outbreak period, Kudun & Partners’ team was already observing strict social distancing, with a portion of the workforce already working remotely. Lawyers who had travelled abroad were asked to self-isolate for 14 days upon their return to Thailand.  

‘Before this was declared a pandemic, our partners brought us into a meeting to tell us that a voluntary firm-wide “work from home” policy was being put in place and we had professional cleaning teams coming in to disinfect the whole office,’ explains Soon Aun Cheok, Head of Business Development. 

Once the emergency decree was imposed, the practice quickly transitioned to an almost totally remote way of practicing. Kudun & Partners is fortunate in having the IT infrastructure to support this, whereas many Thai law firms do not.

Staff are also able to be reimbursed for the cost of additional technologies – such as printer – that they need to purchase to complete their work. 

Of course, the effects of Covid-19 on the workplace are not limited to the administrative complications of working from home. A global pandemic and prolonged self-quarantine will also have a mental and emotional toll on members of your staff. 

To remedy this, Kudun & Partners introduced a mentor-mentee system to provide staff with a point of contact in case they experience mental stress, panic, or other difficulties. 

Client management

Prior to the emergency decree being declared, Kudun & Partners was taking extra care to ensure the virus could not be transmitted during client meetings. 

‘We would ask a client where they had been in the last fourteen days and if they had travelled, we would suggest that the meeting be moved or we conduct it remotely,’ says Troy Schooneman, head of the firm’s International Practice Group.

Lawyers were also continuing to attend court, albeit with measures in place to minimise the risk, such as wearing masks. 

In the last few weeks since the state of emergency was announced, client meetings and discussions are 100% remote, taking place via video conferences and webinars.

Additionally, the courts are now closed and government offices have switched to a primarily online model.

Changes in the external and business environment

Of course, it’s not just internal processes that are impacted by the Covid-19 pandemic. For corporate law firms and their clients, this represents a significant disruption to the global economy.

Some areas of corporate law remain unaffected at present, such as taxation. However, others, such as foreign investment and other cross-border transactions, may see significant disruptions. 

‘We’ve seen a significant increase in demand for legal advice around employment law and contractual compliance-related issues,’ notes Schooneman. The firm has established a special task force to deal with these urgent Covid-19-related enquiries.

Legal practices will need to be agile at this time and anticipate changes in the medium and long-term to where their expertise will be required. 

Looking forward

Above all, it’s important to value the contributions of your workforce. There are plenty of digital tools that can help legal practices cope with delivering services remotely, but it’s the willingness and enthusiasm of your legal team to continue doing their work that really sets you apart.

‘Identify the most important assets you have – your human resources,’ advises Soon Aun Cheok. ‘Take good care of them in times of need and in the future, they will remember what you’ve done for them.’

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Top tips on working through the coronavirus pandemic

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The transmission of the SARS-CoV-2 virus, and the Covid-19 illness it leaves in its wake, has led to government advice, now reinforced by legislation, that has had a greater impact on our way of life than most of us have ever before experienced.

We property professionals have had to adjust our working practices as a result. In our chambers, we have devised fixes to enable us to carry on business almost as usual. Here are some tips drawn from our own experience. These distil the guidance, ‘Working through the Covid-19 Pandemic’, which may be found on the Falcon Chambers website here.

1. Ensure everyone knows how to contact you

Guy Fetherstonhaugh QC: Gone are the days when the easiest way of finding someone at work was to drop in. The change has been hard to adjust to. We are social animals, and we must now substitute that interaction with social media. The result has been that the available frequencies are becoming jammed with messages and videos (some of them very funny, admittedly). Among all this chaff, serious work communications can lose out. So, tip one is to ensure that your comms cover all the options, and that you work out in advance what is the fall-back plan if you cannot get through on email.

2. Don’t forget your wellbeing

Julia Petrenko: Tip two is the corollary of tip one. Although, absent this pandemic, we might all gradually have become used to a more solitary working pattern, the changes wrought in response to this outbreak have been sudden, requiring a swift adaptation of relationships and means of communication. It is easy to feel out of sorts in this sudden and not very brave new world. The answer is to communicate. Send those cat videos; take part in quizzes (we had a cracking quiz recently with Elton John song titles by emoji); have a Zoom teatime. Look out for each other: it’s good for others, and good for you too.

3. Improve your technical skills

Fern Schofield: We all face getting to grips with a plethora of technological communication platforms. There are also new tasks to tackle, such as preparing and navigating PDF bundles. Barristers have come together to share best practice, with specialist associations such as the Chancery Bar Association leading the field. Whatever platform you are using, two tips always apply: test it out ahead of time to ensure you are familiar; and make sure you have an alternative method of communication, such as a phone number or an email address, just in case.

4. Get up to speed with the new court protocols

Gary Cowen QC: It shouldn’t come as a huge surprise to know that the various courts and tribunals have issued their own individual and often conflicting guidance rules on how they intend to continue to operate during the pandemic. Given the flurry of advice from the judiciary, as well as from professional associations, there is a huge amount of information to take on board. The various practice directions issued have been collated on the Falcon Chambers website, and time could usefully be spent in getting up to speed with them. Our experience thus far, however, is that the day-to-day practice may not live up to the formal requirements, especially where technology is added to the mix. Be prepared to adapt at short notice.

5. Keep up to date

Jonathan Karas QC and Tamsin Cox: Government advice and legal restrictions have changed as the situation has developed. Media reports have sometimes been confusing. There is no substitute for keeping up with the legislation first-hand. The Coronavirus Act 2020 can be found here. The relevant statutory instruments are here and government advice is here. While the rule of law is fundamental, the police and public opinion may take a dim view of those who try to carve out exceptions for themselves, such as Sports Direct boss Mike Ashley, even if they have a strict legal point – so don’t be a barrack-room lawyer.

6. Manage expectations

Toby Boncey: Technical and practical difficulties will be encountered as a result of the new methods of working. We should not expect our clients or courts to be as responsive as they might ordinarily be, or for things to be ‘business as usual’. Extra time may need to be factored into plans or directions to account for difficulties and delays. We should be sympathetic to unexpected practical problems faced by those we work with, and those we act against. As well as managing our own expectations and adapting our working practices, we should explain to clients and the courts any impediments to timely compliance with instructions, deadlines or directions, and ensure proactively that appropriate arrangements can be put in place. We should also be aware, and make our clients aware, that additional costs may be incurred as a result of abortive remote hearings, or adjournments at short notice.

7. Be resourceful and forward-thinking

Caroline Shea QC: For those with listed hearings, it is crucial at the earliest possible stage to address whether to proceed remotely or seek adjournment. Considerations: the numbers of participants that will have to attend remotely; whether all participants can guarantee sufficiently robust communications; in a witness action whether witness probity can be ensured and witnesses can handle e-bundles without assistance on hand. Aim to agree the direction of travel with the other side – lead the way and your strategy is likely to prevail. Let the court know what you propose and why before it starts to exercise its own powers under the new protocols.

8. Look after your recruits

Adam Rosenthal QC: It is important to continue to nurture recruits, who have little control over their current predicament, and for whom the uncertainty must be deeply worrying. In our case, the future of chambers is shaped by the recruitment of junior tenants each year, and it is of the utmost importance that the rigorous training and assessment of our pupils is maintained during this period. We have thus put in place a team of supervisors for each pupil to ensure that they have a sufficient flow of work and to ease the burden on individual members who would otherwise supervise alone. It is just as important that pupils are in regular contact with members of chambers via video-conferencing and telephone, and via the junior WhatsApp group we have put in place.

9. Think ADR

Catherine Taskis: With the majority of the courts and tribunals now requiring hearings via video-conferencing or by way of written submissions, litigation has taken a step closer to other forms of alternative dispute resolution (ADR), such as arbitration and independent expert determination, and these changes have also prompted a fresh look at mediation. We have many members of chambers who are ready to act as arbitrators, independent experts and mediators, and we have, in the shape of Falcon Chambers Arbitration, a mechanism that is both suitable for ADR and readily adaptable to remote engagement online.

10. Share and share alike

Oliver Radley-Gardner and Phil Sissons: As we get used to the new world, experiences can usefully be shared to make it work. Sharing experiences of telephone or Skype hearings (which is already happening on LinkedIn and other platforms) means that hearings are more likely to run smoothly. There are practical problems which we have never had to grapple with before. How does one virtually hand up an authority to the bench? How does one swear a witness of fact? How does one pay an issue fee? Information such as court opening times (or lack thereof), procedural changes to meet present circumstances and the different practices of the various courts and tribunals can be hard to find. This is a steep learning curve for all parties involved. The use of corporate websites or individual LinkedIn profiles to disseminate this information is invaluable.

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An uncertain time for pupil barristers during quarantine

One key concern for all chambers during these uncertain times should be the welfare of their pupils. The key issues for pupils during this lockdown, much like the rest of the profession, will be their health, finances, and their practice, but the latter two will be felt acutely by pupils.

Criminal pupils, under normal circumstances, can expect to be in court most days. The rest of their time will be focused on research and other work for members of chambers. With the courts on lockdown, apart from urgent cases, there are limited opportunities for pupils to attend court either in person or by phone or video conferencing. As work grinds to a halt the opportunities to do work for other members of chambers is also limited. These issues all have a direct impact on the cash flow and development of pupils.

As a chambers, we have strived to meet these concerns from an early stage in this crisis. Red Lion has set up a Covid-19 response team which meet (virtually) to discuss all the relevant issues and guidance and provide a helpful daily newsletter keeping members, and pupils, up to date with all developments. The heads of chambers have also organised, by call band, video conferencing groups to address concerns that members and pupils may have.

The pupillage committee has put together a new, comprehensive policy to try and address the issues pupils will face during this crisis. Pupils, for example, will now be working from home, rather than chambers, so they have all been provided with stationery and offered a printer and a shredder to ensure they can work from home effectively without incurring costs. Our bi-monthly advocacy training will continue as usual over Zoom with papers provided by email. Members are being encouraged to continue providing work and research tasks to the pupils. The pupillage committee will provide assessed written exercises. Pupils are also being encouraged to access online resources to continue their professional development.

From a financial perspective, our pupils continue to receive their monthly grant throughout their second six and this provides a safety net for pupils in the absence of court work. We keep the financial arrangements under review and have lots of junior members on our pupillage committee to ensure that there is always someone for pupils to talk to about these issues. It is important for all chambers to assess how their pupils get paid during their second six to ensure that they are properly funded during this period and to ensure that there is a proper forum in place for pupils to raise their concerns.

The future is uncertain and circumstances change on a day-to-day basis so it is impossible to prepare for every eventuality. Communication, therefore, is key to reduce the anxiety of pupils. We must provide as much support as we can to guide them through these uncertain times. WhatsApp groups have been put in place to ensure easy contact with members, the pupillage committee is in regular contact by video calls, and supervisors are asked to be in daily contact during the working week.

My advice to any current pupils is to have as much contact with chambers as possible throughout this period. Chambers should guide you with regards to your training but look out for webinars and other e-learning resources that you can access during this time. The Criminal Bar Association, for example, has now made all their CPD videos free to watch during this time and they can be accessed via their website. Other resources, like the Advocates Gateway, has many useful resources. Above all else, stay safe! If you have any issues or concerns, do not be afraid to raise them, that is what we are here for.

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Managing lockdown: A perspective from the criminal Bar

On Friday 20 March a friend posts on WhatsApp: ‘Can you do barrister in lockdown?’ Yes, no, and up to a point, I reply. This assessment was made good on Monday 23 March at 7:00 am when the Lord Chief Justice (LCJ) issued a statement announcing that no jury trials should take place unless it was safe for them to do so. It wasn’t and, save in a handful of cases, they didn’t. The new reality was cemented at 8:30 pm when the Prime Minister announced lockdown for at least three weeks.

As I write, we are, in truth, at the start of the beginning in dealing with the impact of Covid-19. In my role as Chambers Treasurer I already feel exhausted by three weeks of dynamic planning by the chambers leadership team. How did we do? OK, I think, not least because of outstanding leadership by my joint Heads of Chambers (HoC) – Gillian Jones QC and Anthony Shaw QC.

What did we do? The simple and obvious – we agreed a strategic plan and put it into action.

Early planning
On Tuesday 3 March the government published its Coronavirus (Covid-19) Action Plan. It explained, again, the strategy with four tactical aims: contain, delay, research, and mitigate. But what really caught the eye, was the potential for new restrictions if we entered the delay phase that it described as ‘population distancing’, such as school closures, encouraging greater home working, and reducing the number of large scale gatherings. To us that meant the real risk that courts would close and/or limit themselves to only conducting urgent hearings.

On Wednesday 4 March, the HoC responded by circulating a draft Coronavirus Contingency Plan (CCP). It addressed risk to do with the health and wellbeing of members and staff, and the threat to the income of individual members, either from a widespread pandemic and/or from measures taken to contain or prevent the spread of the virus. The CCP was dynamic and provided for:

  • Constitution of a Chambers Response Team (CRT) responsible for implementing all measures and communicating action to members;
  • Stress testing of chambers finances and plans to mitigate the impact of a downturn in income;
  • Action to ensure adherence to all government published health guidelines and strict compliance with hygiene guidance within chambers;
  • Instruction and guidance to all members to work from home where possible;
  • Instruction and guidance on the use of video technology for all face-to-face meetings and its use in court hearings;
  • Phased planning of the move to home working for clerking and administration teams;
  • Testing of all IT;
  • Agreed new security for chambers office buildings;
  • Reporting instructions for members who suspect they have contracted or come into contact with coronavirus;
  • Agreed communication systems for the CRT, and between the CRT and members, along with testing back up text messaging applications for rapid and effective communication.
  • Action

On Thursday 5 March the new CRT moved all its work onto Microsoft Teams. This made group working and communication effective and seamless. I conducted detailed cash-flow and budget analyses with the senior practice director, Mark Bennett, and reviewed our insurance to check cover for staff irrespective of where they work and for loss of income as a result of disruption. Chambers was in good shape.

On Friday 6 March the CRT issued a Coronavirus (CRV) updater to all members. It summarised the CCP and issued guidance on measures members should take to contain Covid-19. It reminded members that they should carry out their own predictions of income and expenditure. In the following days the CRV updater was revised daily so that members had all necessary guidance from the government and courts in one easy to read document.

The following week the government stuck to a ‘business as usual’ line. This contrasted with more draconian steps in other countries. The private sector also took its own different course. The reality on the ground in the courts was also disconnected from the government’s position: hearings were adjourned and trials collapsed as judges, court staff, jurors, lawyers, and defendants began to self-isolate.

These events prompted the Chambers General Management Committee to convene by conference call on Thursday 12 March. It was agreed the CRT should move operations to a test lockdown setting.

The following day, having stress tested the IT over the preceding week, the clerking and administration teams moved to home working. This made us match fit for events that then cascaded.

The government’s stance did not survive the weekend as over 200 scientists signed an open letter urging a rethink and on Monday 16 March the Prime Minister said everyone in the UK should avoid ‘non-essential’ travel, work from home if they can, self-isolate for 14 days if displaying the symptoms of the virus, and avoid contact with others to curb coronavirus. Londoners were told to pay special attention to these measures. This came after over 100 barristers attended Westminster Hall, my wife among them, to be sworn in as new silks by the Lord Chancellor.

On Tuesday 17 March, Chancellor Rishi Sunak effectively abandoned the budget he presented on Wednesday 11 March announcing that £330bn would be made available in loan guarantees for all businesses affected by the pandemic.

The LCJ also moved to steady the ship in a statement that recognised the latest guidance from government meant that it was not realistic to suppose that it would be ‘business as usual in any jurisdiction, but that it is of vital importance that the administration of justice does not grind to a halt.’ His immediate aim was to ensure as many hearings in all jurisdictions proceeded and the courts continued to deal with urgent matters.

However, at 9:46 pm he bowed to the inevitable and announced that no new jury trial should start in the Crown Court unless expected to last for three days or less, all other trials were adjourned.

Chambers coped admirably. To re-assure members the CPT issued a revision to its CRV updater highlighting all government advice, the LCJ’s statement and chambers’ own policies and working practices designed to address the impact of the outbreak. It published a message for its clients on chambers’ website which was also disseminated by email: it was important to stress we were open for business.

On Wednesday 18 March the Prime Minister went a step further announcing that schools in the UK were to shut from Friday until further notice. The likely impact on members was obvious and as a consequence the CPT went into overdrive and scheduled daily video conference calls.

On Thursday 19 March the government introduced the Coronavirus Act 2020 and the Bank of England cut the interest rate to 0.10% – the lowest rate in the bank’s 325 year existence.

Thereafter, leadership judges for each jurisdiction began to issue a tsunami of pilot practice directions and guidance notes. All of this material was packaged up by the CRT and disseminated to members in the daily CRV updater.

On Friday 20 March, schools closed. Rishi Sunak was back, this time announcing the government would pay the wages of employees unable to work due to the coronavirus pandemic. There was no provision for the self-employed.

The CPT kept all these developments under review, continually assessed the impact on court work for the following and coming weeks and revised its daily CRV updater. How-to guides for Teams, Zoom, and Skype for Business were distributed to members.

The weekend allowed the CPT time to step back, consider and plan its response to the detail of the Chancellor’s new measures. The agreed assessment was that court business would now slow at a rapid rate even to a standstill. A system which divided members into groups by call band with one individual within each group serving as a single point of contact went live on Microsoft Teams. The HoC scheduled video

conferences with all groups throughout the day on Wednesday 25 March. The daily CRV preparing members for the week ahead was issued.

Monday 23 March was lockdown day. At 7:00 am the LCJ issued a statement announcing that no jury trials or other physical hearings should take place unless it was safe for them to do so. Many collapsed and some limped to a conclusion with judges adopting ever creative ways of keeping the show on the road.

At 8:30 pm I watched the Prime Minister address the nation on television and announce ‘lockdown’ with new restrictions in place for at least three weeks.

The CPT met again by video link and reviewed finances, challenging the assessment of cash flow. It stood up. Another CRV updater was issued. Special attention was reserved for pupils with a scheme for the remainder of their training and provision of home working materials such as printers and stationary.

On Tuesday 24 March I got a text message from my mobile phone provider, acting on a government request, with advice on staying isolated. The rest of the day was spent monitoring what was happening on the ground, guidance issued by government and the courts, and planning for the CPT daily meeting. The HoC were provided with the up-to-date key financial analyses for their all-members telethon.

On Wednesday 25 March the Coronavirus Act 2020 received Royal Assent and parliament was shut early for Easter. Police were given powers to use force and impose fines to send people home if they refused to obey lockdown measures. I’m now very familiar with pieces of primary and secondary legislation I would rather have preferred never to have read.

The HoC conducted the planned telethon. The overwhelming response of members was positive. Timely communications and planning instilled confidence and a sense they could and would cope with what was to come.

On Thursday 26 March the CPT moved to an early morning video conference to discuss the previous day’s events and plan the day ahead. High on the agenda was the trailed announcement of the Chancellor with a package of help for the self-employed. This Mr Sunak announced in his third budget in nine days as he unveiled a scheme of taxable grants for the self-employed.

Meanwhile the Resident Judges of the South Eastern Circuit issued Listing Policy – designed to dictate a uniform approach to the courts’ business. In essence everything by video link, physical attendance only where absolutely necessary, and adjournments de-rigour.

The CPT convened again – this time with a more settled position of what day-to-day court business looked like. It agreed its next CRV updater for members and actions to do with staff, liaison with clients, fee collection, security, and more.

On Friday 27 March the justice system settled into its new normal.

For its part Chambers had navigated through the immediate storm, looked after its staff and members, and was ready to face up to and survive lockdown. At some point in all of that I had managed to do some work on my own practice.

What have I learned? My key message is the inestimable value of agreeing a dynamic plan to meet the challenge that faces us in the coming weeks and months. Next, work together and not against each other. Communicate effectively. Identify and grasp new opportunities. Above all else remain positive and retain a sense of humour. We will get through this together – even if it means having to suffer watching the postponed Eurovision Song Contest which for some unfathomable reason my 11-year-old daughter always insists I view with her.

An appeal from home

Following social distancing requirements due to the Covid-19 pandemic, an Application for Leave to Appeal Against Conviction before the full Court of Appeal (Criminal Division) was heard on Friday 26 March 2020 with all parties appearing from separate locations remotely.

Lord Just Fulford indicated after the hearing that this was the first time ever the Court of Appeal had heard such an appeal where all of the parties appeared remotely, using technology from separate locations.

The case may well go on to provide further guidance on the disclosure of material held on phones and other mobile devices in criminal cases. As there were additional matters to be considered, judgment was reserved to a date to be confirmed. It is expected the judgment will also be given remotely using the same technology.

Led by 9 Gough Square’s Tom Little QC, Red Lion Chambers’ Andrew Thompson (pictured) appeared before the Court of Appeal from his dining table in Suffolk. Speaking to fivehundred, he offers his thoughts on the remote hearings.

Is the preparation for a remote hearing different?

Preparation for a remote hearing is no different, except that it is even more crucial to ensure documents relied on are uploaded/e-mailed before the hearing. There is no opportunity to hand in the brilliant authority you discovered that morning!

Make sure that everything is at your fingertips. When using a video connection it may be necessary to have at least two devices if you want to refer to electronic documents or a digital case.

What are the unique challenges in this situation?

It takes a try or two to familiarise yourself with the system and the options. The Court of Appeal has a bespoke system that works differently from Skype/Teams. It works well, allowing phone participants to join as well as those on video.

What was memorable from the experience?

The most striking thing was seeing the three judges apart in their separate rooms (wearing business suits) with the appellant, court staff, and barristers from all over, some by phone. It was a strange and novel experience us all connected from many remote connections for an appeal.

What have you learnt from the experience that others could take on board and learn from?

We will be asking why it has taken so long to do it this way. It went smoothly on this occasion and even if there were no Covid-19 considerations this saved a great deal of unnecessary travel.

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It’s all about engagement – in our clients, our people, our communities

The firm has changed dramatically since you first became chair. Has your focus changed for your second term and, if so, what is your main focus now?

It is certainly correct that our firm has changed dramatically. Expanding in practice areas and locations where our clients most need us has led to us growing by upwards of 50% to more than 2,000 lawyers. This is much more than a numbers game, however. Our focus has been and remains on client service – meaning, serving our clients where and how they need us – by deploying a fully integrated bench of elite lawyers across all of our 15 practice groups and 31 offices.

I am most passionate about continuing to foster a diverse, inclusive, and collaborative culture in my next term. Everything we do is oriented toward our ‘one firm, one vision’culture, and our ability to deliver excellence seamlessly across Morgan Lewis.

Are there any big differences that you expect in your second term compared to the first?

During my first term, we made bold moves in expanding our global footprint and attracting superlative lawyers and professionals to continue to establish ourselves as a global, world-class law firm. Our focus now is to keep getting better and to work on more subtle (although still important) things, such as building upon our connected legal services and continuing to increase our edge in innovative client solutions and technology.

What was the biggest change you made in your first term to benefit clients?

We have always been thoroughly devoted to client service but I am especially proud of the fact that during my first term we formalised our commitment in this area and really made it the primary focus of the firm. For instance, we instituted a firmwide Exceptional Client Service training programme. Our instructors visited every office worldwide and employed a unique and standardised curriculum that underscored our all-in approach to client service and, importantly, gave everyone – both lawyers and staff – practical tools to implement that approach. This was of particular importance in light of our significant growth and our commitment to our clients that they will get the same elite service in every practice, every office, and every country around the world. We believe that our clients expect and deserve service that is exceptional, and we know from our clients that in a competitive market full of high-quality lawyers, that level of service is a distinguishing factor for our firm.

What do you think are the biggest challenges facing Morgan Lewis?

Much the same challenges as those facing any other firm, I suspect, including the rapid advancement of technology, as well as the uncertain future of globalisation and the world economies. We have positioned ourselves well to meet each of these challenges, however. We have long pursued innovative technological solutions, such as our cutting-edge eData Practice, as well as our award-winning ability to manage and utilise large volumes of information via our Parallex system.

We have structured our firm globally to take advantage of, and to meet, client needs anywhere they arise. We follow a prudent and conservative management course that closely aligns with client needs. We have outstanding talent, and we operate extremely effectively as a unified team. I am proud of our position in all of these areas.

Which of your recent initiatives excites you the most?

That would be ML Well. An enormous challenge facing law firms – one that the ABA itself has recognised – is maintaining the health and wellbeing of our people, and Morgan Lewis was one of the first firms to sign the ABA’s Well-Being Pledge. Even before signing the pledge, we had been focusing on this issue and were already in a position to roll out ML Well. What was unique about our approach is that it was not just a programme. Ours was the first firm to appoint a Chief Engagement Officer, and the first to retain a Director of Well-Being, someone who has a master’s degree in Applied Positive Psychology from the University of Pennsylvania (where the concept was first conceived).

ML Well addresses both the physical and mental health of each person at our firm. The outstanding leaders of ML Well are implementing a comprehensive, multidimensional programme offered to all firm personnel to create a healthier, more engaged environment. We have an online portal featuring news and updates on ML Well learning opportunities and events across the firm that we will continue to develop. By having full-time, dedicated staff focused on this critical issue we are taking concrete steps toward promoting wellbeing.

Differentiation is important, so how does Morgan Lewis stand apart from competitors?

The way we work together, with each other and with our clients. We focus on the total needs of our clients, not simply the one-off big matter. Our clients know they can turn to Morgan Lewis to handle their biggest challenges, but also know we can provide solutions to their everyday legal challenges. We serve a large percentage of our clients with multiple Morgan Lewis practice groups, meaning our synergy and collaboration works well for them. We aim for each of our 15 practices to be both a destination and a resource.

Our commitment to cost-effective delivery of services, utilising technology and our highly recognised business team, also gives us major advantages in the market. As I noted before, our clients know that with Morgan Lewis they get a fully integrated team that works effectively and with consistent high quality across the entire firm – and that client service is something they describe as a differentiating factor.

Focusing on you and your role again, experience and results secured your election and re-election as chair. Do you feel any pressure associated with the fact that Morgan Lewis is the largest law firm in the world led by a woman?

Honestly, I view it as an opportunity more than a pressure. We talk in our family about pressure being a privilege, and I believe that. In that regard, I feel lucky to be among the too few women leading global law firms. As the chair of our firm, I take seriously my commitment to the thousands of people within Morgan Lewis, and to the many thousands of clients, to guide this firm in as successful and effective a manner as possible, and I think I would feel the same no matter my gender. At the same time, I acknowledge that having a woman at the top is important not just for our firm, but for the industry. We hear that from clients and from lawyers across the profession, and I hope that I can make a positive contribution to our profession in my role.

What, if anything, do you think has changed for women in the legal industry since you started practicing?

Certainly, the numbers. There were very few women partners or firm leaders when I started practising law and the numbers have been growing. Retaining and promoting talented women is a priority that our clients and most elite law firms recognise as important, and technology has helped us in this regard. We now can make it easier for lawyers to work remotely, which especially benefits working mothers. We were a leader in establishing a formal remote working policy, and two-thirds of our associates who are part of that programme are women.

“I acknowledge that having a woman at the top is important not just for our firm, but for the industry”

In addition, we have more clients who focus on women having real and meaningful roles in client relationships. At Morgan Lewis, we started a programme after I became chair called ML Women, which is a way of harnessing the great talent of our fantastic women to serve clients across the firm, and our male colleagues have recognised this as a win-win for both our firm and our clients.

We also have instituted programmes – open to both women and men – that have proven to be a great benefit to people with family obligations, by giving them an opportunity to transition into and back from extended leaves. We have expansive pregnancy, disability, and child parental leave policies, providing significant leave time for parents welcoming children through birth or adoption. Other firms are taking similar steps. We are definitely working together to make a positive change.

How do you and the firm support women to succeed in their legal careers and take on leadership roles?

We make sure that women are inspired to succeed and become leaders, and the results are self-evident. Right now, 35% of the members of our firm’s Advisory Board are women, and a significant number of our office managing partners and practice group leaders are women – and the majority of our operations chiefs are also women. We are making significant strides to improve on those proportions. For instance, 60% of our most recently announced partnership class are women. We also make it a goal to include women in prominent roles in our client teams. This is not only the right thing to do; clients expect it because they know that diverse teams produce better advice. Finally, the tremendous talent of our women lawyers enables them to meet these needs.

How do you balance your responsibilities as chair with your litigation practice? How has your involvement in client-facing work changed since becoming chair?

I constantly toggle from firm management to client matters. I started out with the firm as an associate and eventually became the leader of the litigation department, the firm’s largest group, and a member of the Advisory Board. Now, as chair, I am privileged to continue to serve our clients, and truly value the insights I receive in balancing both responsibilities.

How do you achieve harmony between the personal and professional sides of your life?

As with all other balancing acts, sometimes better than others! I am fortunate to have a large but very close family, so family has always been important to me. I have never shied away from making clear that focus; even back in the 80s when women were advised not to talk about their families, I had my kids in the office with me, hand drawn pictures on the wall, and my windowsills full of family photos. I work hard to make everyone’s various events, and I talk about them.

I also encourage others to talk about their families, and I involve mine in our work-life and encourage others to do the same. I do not believe there is such a thing as work-life balance; it’s all life. The question is how you integrate those parts of your life – family, community, friends, and work – so that you can thrive in each of the parts of your life. That is the goal, and when we talk about wellbeing, that ability to integrate work with the important other parts of one’s life is paramount.

What is your greatest day-to-day challenge?

The days go by so fast it seems there is never enough time to do everything I want to do. In addition, I am very conscious of how many people depend on us. I realise we are not doctors physically saving lives, but we are sometimes in a position to save the existence of a company or change the course of an outcome that would have profound impact on people’s lives. And of course, I care deeply about the lives of the many people at our firm who depend on us for their livelihood and their sense of satisfaction in what they do every day. Having this sense of responsibility gives me perspective and true meaning to persevere.

How would you define Morgan Lewis’culture?

In a word, collaborative. That is our ‘secret sauce’: the way our people interact with clients and with each other to deliver integrated legal services. Everyone now uses that word, but it has defined Morgan Lewis for decades. We are analogous to the bicycle racing peloton, with the entire group of riders supporting a single goal, and each rider utilising his or her unique skillset, as a sprinter or endurance rider, to push the group forward through various types of terrain and challenges. As a result, everyone ends up going faster than any single rider would alone. That is what we are striving to achieve here.

How do you maintain that culture across all of the firm’s offices?

It’s all about engagement – in our clients, our people, our communities.

We engage with all of our offices constantly. Everyone at our firm takes pride in the fact that we are a single, unified organisation. We bring our lawyers together in myriad ways throughout each year, and every practice group has a single global leader so that everyone is working on a team that is moving collectively and harmoniously.

We also do things to help people stay on top of what is going on everywhere in the firm. One of our unique tools is a daily newsletter, TODAY at Morgan Lewis, that provides a roundup of news about our accomplishments for clients, accolades, firm happenings, and other information that knits our firm together. We also make increasing efforts to engage all personnel, lawyers and staff, in initiatives such as ML Well and Exceptional Client Service. We want to leave no-one behind and we value each person who calls Morgan Lewis home.

Another critical area for us is community engagement, particularly through our Community Impact Week, and our pro bono programme, which both involve all of our offices globally and keeps us connected with all the communities in which we operate. We are the only firm of our size that requires, and achieves, 100% participation worldwide in our 20-hour pro bono challenge. I am very, very proud of our commitment to that goal.

Finally, what advice would you give to the next generation of partners? Would your advice be the same for both men and women?

For the next generation, I would say jump at opportunities presented to you even if you have to stretch your comfort level. You have to believe in yourself and have the confidence that if you have done your homework and the hard thinking and preparation, you will succeed.

My advice to both men and women would be pretty much the same: be yourself. You can never be more than second best if you are trying to be someone else, and it is just too hard. Over the years I have received a great deal of advice, much of which I keep with me and heed, but being able to find my own path has been important. This also applies in terms of our people bringing their authentic selves to the workplace. We all have something to bring to the table and, at Morgan Lewis, we value having a range of views and perspectives.

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We don’t grow simply to grow

On January 22, DLA Piper announced you have become the sole US chair and global co-chair of the firm’s Intellectual Property and Technology (IPT) practice. Can you tell me a bit more about your move into this role in addition to other roles you hold within the firm?

I have been in leadership roles for quite some time now and was the US chair of DLA Piper’s Trademark, Copyright and Media practice for over ten years. I also took on the role of vice chair of our Intellectual Property and Technology practice several years ago and then became the co-chair of that practice last year. These leadership roles helped me prepare to take over as the sole US chair and global co-chair of the practice this year.

I am also a member of the Executive Committee, as well as a member of DLA Piper’s firmwide Policy Committee. I am an Executive Sponsor of Iris, our LGBTQ resource group, and I am an active ally at the firm. Lastly, I am also the global co-chair of sectors, which is a very rewarding role, as I helped to build our sector platform at DLA Piper. This platform allows us to deliver services to our clients that are tailored to their industry sector, with lawyers who are steeped in experience with that sector.

My several roles here at the firm help me see the bigger picture of the entire firm to better lead our Intellectual Property and Technology practice and oversee our sector approach, while making sure both of these areas are successfully deployed to serve the clients very well.

What are your plans for the IPT Group? Do you plan to make any changes?

For the past couple of years we have been focused on growing our life science patent litigation capabilities, and that will continue. Going forward, the focus will be making the team, which is made-up of existing partners as well as new laterals, work as cohesively as if they have been together for years. This is key to the success of our group – bringing in new perspectives from the outside to mix with partners who already know how to navigate the firm to help serve the clients and grow the practice.

We have also been focused on building our disputes practice in trademark, copyright and media (including entertainment), and key practices such as privacy, cybersecurity, and telecommunications. We are always looking at finding talent in patent litigation throughout the US, and particularly in our major offices, and I will continue to focus on these areas.

“All of the travel and spending time with colleagues around the world helps support consistent client delivery no matter where the issue arises”

Fostering diversity and inclusion in our group and at all levels of the firm is a huge priority and is vital to our long-term success and to the success of our clients, and this focus will continue. Right now the chairs of our Technology, Data and Commercial group, our Patent Prosecution group, and our Trademark Copyright and Media group, as well as a vice chair of our Patent Litigation group – four out of five of our subgroups within IPT – are women. This sends a powerful signal to our lawyers throughout the group and the firm about the broad opportunities available at this firm for leadership.

Frankly, this also helps us recruit – success breeds success – and we have been extremely successful at recruiting talented women lawyers in all of our subgroups. We are also continuing to focus on recruiting lawyers of colour, and lawyers who bring diversity to the team based on a wide variety of backgrounds before joining the firm.

I am very excited to announce that we are adding a new subgroup in our practice, which will be a robust financial regulatory practice with a technology focus. This practice was born directly from the expressed needs of our clients. The work this group will focus on includes mobile payments, money transfers, blockchain, and digital assets. This key experience will complement the work we already do in commercial contracts, as well as technology transactions and strategic sourcing, and will bring these disciplines together to provide enhanced client service.

Servicing our clients is always our first priority. We don’t grow simply to grow. We continue to make sure our clients are getting the best and most responsive legal advice, work with them to get ahead of what is happening in the market, and introduce them to other professionals in their industry so they can grow and better manage their businesses.

Internally, we are making sure we align our goals with the international DLA Piper IPT practice, collaborating with key sectors. The international side of the business is obviously key to our overall strategy. It helps that I am good friends with my global co-chair of the practice, Melinda Upton, who is based in Sydney. We share a vision for growth around the world, growth that is externally client-focused and diverse.

What are the biggest challenges you face, and to what extent is balancing client work with your leadership roles one of them?

It is always a challenge to be ahead of client needs when you have a management role, but the key to this is teamwork. I have a strong team, which allows me to service our clients and also keep up with my firm leadership roles. Every individual on the team is strong in their area, and clients appreciate that there is a deep bench to serve them. I would not be able to do this all without my team!

Navigating the different time zones with my frequent travel can be a challenge at times. I was recently in Australia and had to overcome jetlag while still waking up in the middle of the night to participate in client meetings happening in the US. While this is a challenge, I also get to work with colleagues in person around the world, which I really do enjoy. And clients who are increasingly global with multi-jurisdictional issues like to work with a team whose members know one another and work well together, so we are able to know who is right for any given project and deliver it well. All of the travel and spending time with colleagues around the world helps support consistent client delivery no matter where the issue arises.

“Be mindful of the fact that unconscious bias does exist, even in the most progressive settings”

As we are doing a special feature on women in law this month, can you tell me about any challenges you have faced as a female attorney building a successful legal career?

It is amazing that we are still discussing this, but here we are. Despite the number of women coming out of law schools, the numbers at the top of any law firm do not reflect those higher entry numbers. In my case, when I was a younger lawyer before joining DLA Piper, of course there were challenges, mostly centred on opportunities and expectations. At some point I think I just powered through, but what really helped was to have a champion. This is different from a mentor who provides advice. While mentoring is very helpful to success, a champion puts themself out there, uses their clout to introduce clients and colleagues, and stands up to support a younger lawyer. In my case, my champions were mostly men, so I think it is not important whether a champion is a man or a woman.

Let’s face it, there are definitely challenges that come with being a female attorney in any law firm, and I view this firm as being incredibly open and supportive. And law firms have obstacles for both men and women. I started in a smaller firm, and it became clear early on that building relationships and client business were keys to success. Now I see companies using their power to help women succeed by insisting that women and other diverse lawyers be assigned to their matters and run their relationship with the firm. In my early career, this push from clients did not exist. This will help firms enormously to succeed in providing opportunities for women and other diverse attorneys. I think one of the key issues that we have been focused on at the firm centres around unconscious bias. What are partners signalling to their associates? Are the opportunities provided or are expectations made? Are there sufficient numbers of women with material client roles – not just internal leadership roles – so that these barriers break down? In my case, if these questions were being asked when I was a younger lawyer, I think my career trajectory would have been much simpler.

What do you think is the single most important thing law firms can do to retain and develop female talent?

Be mindful of the fact that unconscious bias does exist, even in the most progressive settings, and create and support a strong career path for women lawyers. Firms can do this by having a formal programme to help women succeed that is tied to internal statistics that are measurable, to make leaders accountable for success.

I also believe that internal groups similar to DLA Piper’s Leadership Alliance for Women (LAW) Program that focuses on opportunities and access to clients is key. This is so important to our clients as they are asking for diverse teams to match their own legal departments – so law firms really need to be focused on ways to retain and develop female talent in order to remain competitive.

Can you tell me more about DLA Piper’s LAW Program and your involvement with it?

DLA Piper’s Leadership Alliance for Women (LAW) was launched in 2006 by several of our women partners as an initiative to help retain and develop women lawyers in the firm’s global environment. LAW fosters internal networking, facilitates the flow of information, and empowers women lawyers by developing leadership skills and creating business development opportunities. LAW advances the firm’s global competitive edge by developing and promoting women attorneys to maximise their opportunities for business generation and leadership.

As part of LAW, we also have a Women Emerging Leaders programme to help junior female partners become strong business developers and firm leaders. I feel having this formal programme in place really helps women at our firm by providing trainings, developing internal networks, promoting leadership, eliminating barriers, and giving our junior lawyers insight into the business of the firm and growing a practice. This programme also gives management and client visibility to those younger partners. One thing you don’t want to be or feel in a big law firm is invisible, and these programmes help prevent that from happening.

I am an active member of LAW and help to form our firmwide LAW initiatives and programmes. I personally spend a lot of time ‘behind the scenes’mentoring and championing a lot of attorneys, including women, inside and outside of the firm. I could not have gotten to where I am today without having mentors and champions, so I feel very strongly about helping junior attorneys.

What advice would you give to young female lawyers who are looking towards partnership or leadership roles within law firms or in-house teams?

Seek out mentors and champions early in their careers. I had a mosaic of partners I modelled myself after. I wasn’t like any one of them completely, but I found my own voice and style by learning from aspects of those mentors and champions in how they conducted themselves.

I also think it is important for all lawyers, women and men, to not just rely on themselves to be successful. They need to build support and a team around them, not to ‘use’them, but to support them in their careers. By giving back, you actually gain so much in learning how to lead others.

What are you most proud of in your career to date?

I am really proud of the team I have built and the clients and friends I have helped in their careers. My team is one of the most diverse in the firm; many are racially, ethnically, or otherwise diverse including in gender and sexual orientation. They work so well together, and each of them continues to move up in their careers.

In some cases I have asked partners to move from one office or group at the firm to another where I knew there would be more opportunity and need – or asked a partner to lead a group or sector as their first foray into leadership – and it makes me so happy to see them now thriving.

I know I have built something that will last. I also like giving insights to friends and clients (or clients who become friends and friends who become clients) to help them advance in their careers. I like connecting clients and friends, and I think back to how this was done for me. It just makes life better for all of us and, frankly, more fun.

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Talented people look for meaning in their careers

In recognition of the firm’s two-year anniversary, can you start by telling us about the key successes for Selendy & Gay to date?

We set out to build something different and something that could drive excellence and a collaborative, client-centred service. So, the quality of the practice we’ve built over these past few years is one of the things I am most proud of.

We are leading some of the most interesting cases out there for important clients, and we have had a string of incredible victories in our first two years. Right alongside that success is the calibre of people we have been able to attract – associates from the top law schools and many of them having come from extraordinary clerkships. We’ve had a resoundingly positive response from the talent pool and have a phenomenal cadre of associates working with us.

Looking forward, what are your plans for the firm? You have said before that you do not plan to expand outside of New York – has this changed?

It has not. It is a core principle on which we built the firm; having a single office culture where everyone knows each other and where we can leverage relationships with each other effectively for our clients. We work all over the country so being based in New York doesn’t limit our ability to do the most interesting litigation nationally or even internationally.

Having a single office is also a main component of our quality control. It becomes hard not to compromise on quality when you are so big and far flung that you don’t know your partners and all the people you are working with. You don’t have the sense, like we do here, as to who exactly is right to represent each client. Scale can undermine the quality you bring to any client problem.

So, in addition to maintaining the single office culture and the focus on quality of service, do you have other plans?

We have developed a strategic plan that focuses on continued, disciplined growth. We can imagine being 100, 120, or maybe even 150 partners and associates. The magic number is really about that connectivity, so we are continuing to grow with demand for our services, but it will be a measured expansion and one that avoids a scale that brings anonymity.

You and your colleagues have ‘reworked operations’at Selendy & Gay and have said you focus on professionals in HR, marketing, IT and other areas. Can you expand on what you mean by this?

As we looked at the structure of law firms, we felt they were quite behind other professions in terms of innovation. Law firms, especially the large ones, can be encumbered by legacy structures and legacy approaches. We believe lawyers are best suited to lawyering, and if they were meant to be running businesses then that is probably what they would have done with their careers. Our idea was to partner with experienced business professionals and turn over more of the operational business leadership of the firm to them.

“I see subtle biases around whether or not they are truly committed to a firm, especially after they start families”

We rely on our chief operating officer, chief marketing officer, chief technology officer, and other c-suite partners to guide us, which frees up more of the managing partners’time specifically (but also the partnership in general) to focus on lawyering and client service. I don’t put a committee of lawyers on the task of managing our c-suite. We empower them to run the office and the financial and operational aspects of the law firm.

Looking more closely at your role, what are your main areas of focus as co-managing partner and how do you balance client needs with managing partner obligations?

Historically, I admit, I had often thought of co-leadership as a sign of weakness in an organisation. But David Elsberg and I as co-managing partners are aligned on the goals and values of the firm. Our focus is on creating conditions for excellence. Every firm wants to be perceived as being the highest calibre, but I find that aspiration is futile without thinking long and hard about what the conditions are in which people can deliver their best performance.

We are focused on our lawyers and the other professionals at our firm in that sense. We think about how we can foster conditions of excellence, and it is about training and empowerment within fields of expertise. It’s about setting high standards and very clear goals, and then using data-driven analytics to measure outcomes – we try to take lessons from other industries in this latter sense.

David and I tag team when one of us is going to trial, but the real key is that I can spend the vast majority of my time on client service because of the calibre of talent we have in finance, operations, marketing, technology, and HR.

Can you tell me a bit more about how you establish the desired culture within a new firm, and then maintain it?

I spent many years at Kirkland & Ellis, which is a firm that is extremely successful, and my mentor was one of the founders of its New York office. I got some really good advice from him, including that organisational culture is defined in the first three to six months, and you’ve got to focus on that.

From the get-go, David and I worked to empower people from all areas of the firm to come to us if we were not living up to our stated mission and goals, and to let us know if they felt any gaps existed between the values we articulated and what’s happening in practice.

As a mission-driven culture, we can be successful and profitable by doing the kinds of cases we want at a very high level. We can set out our aspirations and values, but you still have to be open – and open to hearing where you’re falling short. Associates report regularly to us on what they’re experiencing in terms of the delivery of services to them through operations, technology, litigation support, and right through to the kinds of work we’re taking on. We communicate with them on a regular basis and have frequent town hall meetings where we allow anonymous feedback and questions in advance. We’re trying to make it clear that we mean what we say but we’re not perfect and really want to hear feedback, especially David and I as managing partners.

How would you define the differences between Selendy & Gay and your Big Law competitors, and what has been the biggest difference for you personally?

Again, I think back to conditions of excellence where people can perform at their best. We think about the law with a lot of reverence. We take pride in our ability to take a stand on the issues we care about – whether it’s climate change or anti-competitive practices or anything else. We stand up for what we believe in in a way other big law firms cannot, in part because of their diversified practices and interests. With a focus on litigation only, we don’t have a corporate practice, for example, so we can champion cases and causes without those conflicts.

The most talented people nowadays are looking for meaning in their career and in their lives. They care about what they’re doing and the impact it has for good. The rise and influence of legal journalism has contributed, in part, to a drive for firms to have the highest profit per partner and to publish that data. The problem is not in wanting to be the most profitable – because we’re no different than any other firm in that regard – but there has been an injection of bad elements into the competition, not only for clients, but also for the profession. We don’t publish our profits. We don’t want to compete for talent that way, by letting people know that if they come to us they’re going to make the most money. We want people coming in for the right reasons. They see our commercial success and the quality of our practice, but we don’t want money to be the primary factor.

The other thing is, if you want a collaborative partnership and firm overall, you have to put client service ahead of origination credit. To compete for talent, many firms have stepped away from lockstep compensation, which can generate unnecessary competitiveness and disincentivises collaboration. For me, it has been transformative to staff matters according to who’s the best person to work on the case for the client, without regard to how it’s going to affect compensation. It’s another example of our commitment to client service.

Prior to founding Selendy & Gay, what were the biggest challenges for you as a woman in the legal profession?

I think of the women who came before me and I feel tremendously lucky that I didn’t have to deal with the same issues they experienced in terms of being hired, recognised, or promoted as a woman. I certainly acknowledge that I stood on the shoulders of wonderful, talented women who didn’t get to move into the ranks of partnership.

Nevertheless, I think there are still far more biases against women in the profession, and they come from unexpected places. I have worked at top-notch firms like Cravath, Kirkland, and Quinn Emanuel, and I don’t mean to impugn them in any way, but a lot of big firms have not managed to crack what it is that drives women out of the profession. I’ve heard a lot over the years about self-selection and women being more committed to their families. I believe that is a red herring because both men and women can and do come to the conclusion that, for very good reasons, Big Law is not the right place for them. And I think it’s a success, not a failure, if you figure out that you want to use your law degree for something else.

But, fundamentally for women, I see subtle biases around whether or not they are truly committed to a firm, especially after they start families. If they had children, the question was asked whether they were really in it for the long haul and could be trusted with the firm’s most important client relationships, and even whether they need the money. At times in my own compensation discussions people would say things like ‘you don’t need the money’. People actually said that to me despite decades of service and commitment to clients. I felt that no matter how hard I worked, how much dedication I showed, or how much success I had, only the people who were closest to me trusted my commitment to being a partner in a law firm and helping that firm to succeed over the long term.

Those are very subtle things, but they came up again and again. There were also pigeon-holing efforts, I felt, to have me focus on clients that had female heads of litigation. As if every female GC makes their selection based on gender. Very, very often they do not. I was also asked to play roles within the firm that were stereotypically female. Those were challenges and at times, they could really be demoralising. But I never lost focus on how much I love being a trial lawyer, the work, and client service. That ultimately meant I got to take advantage of practising with some of the greatest male trial attorneys and I got incredible experience. I didn’t ever have female mentors, but I did work with great trial lawyers.

Do you think things are changing now within the profession in terms of those subtle biases or is it a problem that persists?

When I was in Big Law, I felt there wasn’t enough pressure from the outside world – from the revenue sources – against that subtle discrimination against women. Even when I graduated from law school in the mid-90s my class was equally distributed between men and women. But I don’t see that there are the mechanisms for foundational changes because law firms are still almost entirely run by men. They don’t experience the subtle things that can be so dispiriting for women. Like when you know that you’re working harder or you’re making all kinds of sacrifices at home and with your family in order to be available in a demanding client service business and then it still doesn’t seem to be enough. I haven’t seen the conditions for real change in Big Law.

However, I would call out the male partners within law firms who do make a tremendous difference for the women they mentor and train. But it’s the luck of the draw. You can find the mentor who really allows you to achieve, and to get the experience and exposure you need. I don’t want to discount that, but it’s not systemic.

Looking at Selendy & Gay, what differences do you think exist as a result of having a women-owned and female majority firm?

You have to start by understanding that we never set out to have a female majority firm, only to choose the lawyers we most wanted to practice with in a new firm. We came together as a group of lawyers that wanted a new type of firm and it was a meritocratic endeavour. As it turns out, we have more than half women. The men who are part of this firm grew up working shoulder to shoulder with female lawyers as their equals. They mentor female lawyers as well as male lawyers, and that is the condition for a meritocracy.

It’s just different here. It’s the diversity lesson generally. If you look at some of the studies that have been done about boards where real diversity has been achieved, whether it’s gender diversity or otherwise, those boards perform better. And I think we all believe that to be the case when you bring in diversity and diversity of experience. When you look at things through a gender lens, through an LGBTQ+ lens, or through a minority lawyer lens, you’re going to learn something. And the way to do it is by trying to build that diversity within your practice.

For women specifically, when you are growing up, your parents tell you that you can be anything you want and that you could even be President of the United States. And when you’re a little girl in this country, and you look at all the presidents to date, you think ‘really’? So, I also place great value on having young women lawyers grow up in a firm where they have female role models. You look at all the women partners in our firm who’ve become partners in Big Law, but not by doing it the same way in terms of how we strike a work-life balance and how we develop client relationships. It’s not just that there’s one woman, there’s a group of women who did it in different ways, who made their profession a priority in their life and balanced that with other things that were also priorities.

A young woman at our firm can see multiple female role models and I think that is very empowering in keeping women in the profession. Years ago, I was involved in founding the Women’s Leadership Initiative at Kirkland and we started doing exit interviews with female associates who were leaving. I remember one associate saying there were two women partners in her entire department and she couldn’t see herself as either one, they were just so different. It was impactful to me that even when there were women leaders in the department, when there’s just one or two it still might not feel like you have a role model.

To finish, what advantages do you think working with Selendy & Gay has for clients?

If we achieve our goals of creating the conditions for consistent excellence in the delivery of client services, we’re going to keep up the trend we’ve had of securing a great number of trial wins, motion wins, and settlements. It’s about being known for getting results. That’s true for us because we can take a case all the way to trial, win on appeal, and win at summary judgment because we bring the right resources to bear for our clients regardless of whose client relationship it is.

I, for the first time in my entire career, at Selendy & Gay can say there are cases that I brought in where the client and the relationships were mine, where I did not bill more than an hour or two getting the case set up and introducing my other partners. I never have to worry about getting compensation credit for that. I can give the case to the partner who has the right experience to run it.

Clients know what they’re getting from us. We think about cases in a way that is always focused on their end game, whether they want to go to trial or not. We know what it is to get a case and see it all the way through trial. We have incredible courtroom experience and the way we move cases along maximises the chance to win on summary judgment or to get a settlement, and we put together powerful trial teams. So I think that is a big differentiator. A lot of times, litigation departments in Big Law will have one or two big name trial lawyers and not every litigator working on the case really understands how to get a case to trial, and to drive it forward towards that.

I also think our experiences on both the plaintiff’s side and the defence side gives us a lot of perspective that is valuable for our clients. They appreciate that if we are defending them, we can anticipate the moves of our adversaries because we’ve been on the plaintiff side of similar cases. On the flip side, we know how defence lawyers act and tend to think in certain circumstances.

The proof is in the pudding. We have many instances where clients have come and placed their trust in us on absolutely critical matters. We respect that tremendously, and the calibre of our practice allows us to excel in those complex cases. That is and ties back to your first question about our key success.